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Post by tj on Aug 6, 2020 7:48:06 GMT -8
Any updates on this, other than the videos with Jackson and Walden? Seems like Neal and Jon must be pretty sure of their case if they are putting video out with those guys in it. It's one thing to say Ross and Smith are out and announce replacements, but to perform with the new guys seems pretty final. Not that Ross and Smith won't get some cash out of the deal - maybe - but I don't see them ever with Jon or Neal again. Also, have Perry, Herbie, Augeri, Soto or Rolie weighed in publicly at all on this? I know that Rolie has been gone for decades and from what I have seen has no business interests in the band, but with his playing with Neal in the JTT band, etc. I just wondered what his thoughts were. Augeri posted something on his FB at the time of the firings saying "If you only knew." Some speculated this was about Ross getting sacked, as allegedly SA and Ross still talk. Videos and content doesn't really indicate much of anything regarding the ongoing legal matter. Remember - Geoff Tate quickly pushed out a Queensryche album to show he had ownership. Pretty soon after, he lost the rights to the name. Eagles were notoriously argumentative with each other over music, business, and just about everything else. Most notably Felder, but even going all the way back to Meisner and Leadon. It was either Felder or Schmit, I don't remember which one, who said that basically the first time he went to rehearsal it was like entering the room with a band that had just broken up and it went downhill from there. Talent has never equaled being a decent human being or having common sense. Talent often wins out, but at the price of everyone's mental health and often good business.
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Post by tj on Aug 27, 2020 13:28:20 GMT -8
Just thinking about this some more while considering Steve Augeri's role.
Smith did not want back in 20+ years ago. Perhaps it was that he was still bothered at Jon and Neal agreeing to dump him in 85. Probably as much did not want to spend years on the road bringing the band back, which was an unsure thing immediately post Perry. After they were reestablished, the paycheck probably made the whole deal more attractive.
Speculation here, but perhaps they assumed that Smith would rejoin in 98 and had asked Ross to rejoin first. Then after Smith says no, even being the dicks that they are they couldn't come back to Ross and say no to him. Or Azoff said you have to have at least one of those guys to get anyone (fans, record companies, booking agents) to go with it being Journey. So they keep Ross instead of getting Jackson, Ricky Phillips or someone else who they had played with at some point.
So Ross and Smith go along with being back in the band, get big checks and some decent travel and then when they get a good chance, kick the other two in the nuts for being assholes to them and Soto, and Jeremy, and who knows who else over years.
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Post by slucero on Aug 27, 2020 13:52:23 GMT -8
or... Neal's JTT project, if successful, could spawn itself into a something that sidelines Journey.... and the paydays for Ross and Smitty...
More likely?
Nightmare were fiduciary compelled to protect the mark from unauthorized use. Why?
Neal and Jon no longer had a license to use the Journey mark, as the Elmo contract that licensed use of the Journey mark to them had expired (all this is documented in the suit).
Even though Neal is a founding member of Journey, his ownership of the Journey mark only exists as equal to the percentage of his ownership in Nightmare. It's the same for all Nightmare shareholders.
Neal might think he has some moral right to the name... but doesn't mean jack shit.
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Post by tj on Aug 27, 2020 15:05:22 GMT -8
or... Neal's JTT project, if successful, could spawn itself into a something that sidelines Journey.... and the paydays for Ross and Smitty... More likely? Nightmare were fiduciary compelled to protect the mark from unauthorized use. Why? Neal and Jon no longer had a license to use the Journey mark, as the Elmo contract that licensed use of the Journey mark to them had expired (all this is documented in the suit). Even though Neal is a founding member of Journey, his ownership of the Journey mark only exists as equal to the percentage of his ownership in Nightmare. It's the same for all Nightmare shareholders. Neal might think he has some moral right to the name... but doesn't mean jack shit. I agree with your "more likely" scenario much more than the JTT. JTT is a fun side gig for Neal and hard core fans, but will be nothing compared to Journey with Arnel, Jon, and whomever. 15 years ago, when the stuff Neal wants to play with JTT was a decade and a half fresher, they had people walking out of the first half of the Generations tour because they didn't want to listen to the non-dirty dozen stuff. If Neal thinks that JTT is somehow going to go over better now, after almost a half century since most of it was released, he is not living in the real world of today's Journey fans and music fans in general.
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Post by tj on Apr 1, 2021 15:32:24 GMT -8
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Post by slucero on Apr 2, 2021 6:28:09 GMT -8
They got paid and all got mutually gagged. The only statement we'll hear is likely the attorney read statement.
Ross can retire.
Smitty can go back to his real love, jazz.
Neal's pretty literate on gag orders from his interaction with Perry's lawyers, so I'd expect we hear nothing going forward.
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Post by steveo777 on Apr 2, 2021 8:13:49 GMT -8
They got paid and all got mutually gagged. The only statement we'll hear is likely the attorney read statement.
Ross can retire.
Smitty can go back to his real love, jazz.
Neal's pretty literate on gag orders from his interaction with Perry's lawyers, so I'd expect we hear nothing going forward.
So, Is Journey still Neal's band? It appears so. Good they can move on, get that new album out and tour again. I'm excited to see what the new lineup can do.
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Post by slucero on Apr 2, 2021 8:31:47 GMT -8
They got paid and all got mutually gagged. The only statement we'll hear is likely the attorney read statement.
Ross can retire.
Smitty can go back to his real love, jazz.
Neal's pretty literate on gag orders from his interaction with Perry's lawyers, so I'd expect we hear nothing going forward.
So, Is Journey still Neal's band? It appears so. Good they can move on, get that new album out and tour again. I'm excited to see what the new lineup can do.
Well technically... the Journey mark is still administered by Nightmare and changing that would require the directors of Nightmare to agree. In order to control the Journey mark... Neal needs a controlling voting interest in Nightmare... I think the remaining directors are Neal, Jon, Perry and Herbie..
I assume Ross and Smitty have ended their involvement with Nightmare as a condition of the settlement...if not, Neal should sue the shit out of whoever negotiated the deal...
So the touring band may be Neal's... but not the name, although Perry and Herbie likely aren't going to interfere with Neal and Jon...
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Post by tj on Apr 2, 2021 9:12:40 GMT -8
So, Is Journey still Neal's band? It appears so. Good they can move on, get that new album out and tour again. I'm excited to see what the new lineup can do. Well technically... the Journey mark is still administered by Nightmare and changing that would require the directors of Nightmare to agree. In order to control the Journey mark... Neal needs a controlling voting interest in Nightmare... I think the remaining directors are Neal, Jon, Perry and Herbie..
I assume Ross and Smitty have ended their involvement with Nightmare as a condition of the settlement...if not, Neal should sue the shit out of whoever negotiated the deal...
So the touring band may be Neal's... but not the name, although Perry and Herbie likely aren't going to interfere with Neal and Jon...
Since the whole Journey Through Time thing is tied up in this, hopefully Jon, Perry and Herbie got some clear language about what Neal can do in using that name going forward. Perry and Herbie are not great friends from what they have said about each other over the years, so any ongoing disputes within Nightmare would be interesting to see which side they end up on.
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Post by slucero on Apr 27, 2021 14:01:00 GMT -8
Well technically... the Journey mark is still administered by Nightmare and changing that would require the directors of Nightmare to agree. In order to control the Journey mark... Neal needs a controlling voting interest in Nightmare... I think the remaining directors are Neal, Jon, Perry and Herbie..
I assume Ross and Smitty have ended their involvement with Nightmare as a condition of the settlement...if not, Neal should sue the shit out of whoever negotiated the deal...
So the touring band may be Neal's... but not the name, although Perry and Herbie likely aren't going to interfere with Neal and Jon...
Since the whole Journey Through Time thing is tied up in this, hopefully Jon, Perry and Herbie got some clear language about what Neal can do in using that name going forward. Perry and Herbie are not great friends from what they have said about each other over the years, so any ongoing disputes within Nightmare would be interesting to see which side they end up on.
Well Jon, Perry, Neal and Herbie only have one vote each... and Neal would need a majority (3) to use the mark for JTT.... Jon and Perry likely view anything that promotes Journey as good for catalog sales and their residuals... so I'd expect them to not be against it... Herbie I'd expect to side with Neal.
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