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Post by tj on Apr 15, 2020 21:16:06 GMT -8
Ross claims that Neal tried to trademark JTT and Nightmare, Inc. attorneys opposed it and that is what set off the firing and lawsuit.
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Post by slucero on Apr 16, 2020 19:25:16 GMT -8
Ross claims that Neal tried to trademark JTT and Nightmare, Inc. attorneys opposed it and that is what set off the firing and lawsuit.
I read the complaint in the other thread.
I don't think Neal and Jon could fire Ross and Smith... as all 5 plus Herbie are equal shareholders in Nightmare, and Nightmare owns the Journey mark. At least that's how Ross complaint read to me. Looks like Neal stepped on his dick again... and Jon went along for the ride...
If so, Ross and Smith have legitimate claims on loss of potential earnings against Ross and Neal... especially with the $50M Live Nation deal....
This could cost Neal and Jon millions...
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TNC
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Post by TNC on Jul 13, 2020 7:28:32 GMT -8
If Ross and Smitty took issue with the very existence of a spin-off band, like JTT, they should have worked with Neal to mix up the setlist. Since they were unwilling to play deep cuts or do new music, they got what they deserve.
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Post by slucero on Jul 13, 2020 9:58:41 GMT -8
If Ross and Smitty took issue with the very existence of a spin-off band, like JTT, they should have worked with Neal to mix up the setlist. Since they were unwilling to play deep cuts or do new music, they got what they deserve.
There's a 1998 affidavit where Schon and Cain admit Nightmare Productions is the current owner of the Journey name and that its approval may be necessary to use the Journey name.
But honestly... why any of the members of Nightmare couldn't just reach out to Neal and say: "hey, make sure you get something in writing from Nightmare about using "Journey" in the JTT name... since Nightmare is responsible for protecting the use of the name"...
Now knowing Neal... he may have not reacted well to that.. but at least that would have been a better place to start (and I don't know if they did try)
instead it turned into this shit show....
Personally.. I prefer JTT to the current form of Journey... but I prefer the Rolie/Perry lineup...
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Post by tj on Jul 16, 2020 18:39:21 GMT -8
Was thinking about this some more today. Really, I am not sure why I even care, but it keeps me out of trouble - mostly.
Neal has talked about how Journey is "his band" and how he founded it. I even remember Cain years ago saying that while they were waiting on Perry to have hip surgery, Schon just wanted his band back.
Yet, in the few interviews that Herbie Herbert has given, his perspective is pretty clear that Herbie founded the band around Schon and Rolie. I get that Schon is the only constant link from day one to now. But given the poor decisions Schon seems to have made over the years in his personal and business lives, if you were Perry or Herbie, or Ross or Smith, would you trust Schon to handle the JTT business in a way that would not damage the Journey brand?
I wouldn't. Which makes me think that is why Ross's countersuit shows Perry and Herbie on the same side. Like Schon or not, - and I don't get the sense that either Perry or Herbie much do these days from the few public comments that they have made - it seems to me that they would be foolish to hand him the keys to a part of the brand without significant control over what he does with it.
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TNC
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Post by TNC on Jul 17, 2020 5:30:15 GMT -8
TJ - I understand where you are coming from. However, I don't think Ross or Smitty wanted control to do anything actually productive with the band - from either a business or creative side of things. What good can take place from demoting Schon/Cain from Nightmare's board? I trust both of them more than Ross or Smitty. Journey is still around today because Schon/Cain did the work in 98.
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Post by tj on Jul 17, 2020 7:36:46 GMT -8
TJ - I understand where you are coming from. However, I don't think Ross or Smitty wanted control to do anything actually productive with the band - from either a business or creative side of things. What good can take place from demoting Schon/Cain from Nightmare's board? I trust both of them more than Ross or Smitty. Journey is still around today because Schon/Cain did the work in 98. I agree that if they were looking at retirement plans, they didn't probably weren't interested in being creative. Neal has said as much. Smith got paid for his time, Ross as well, like Augeri, Soto, Castronovo and Arnel. If any of them are hurting for money it's their own fault somewhere along the way. Ross and Dean spent way more time on the road than anyone but Schon and Cain. Perry and Herbie walked on the beaches and took naps. They all got paid for their work and/or ownership according to the deals they agreed to.
Neal is a few years younger than Ross, though Smith is about Schon's age. Cain is almost 70 if he's not there yet. The road is a hard life and I can see them wanting out, especially at their age. Bodies wear down pretty rapidly at that age. Tris Imboden and Jason Scheff left Chicago a couple of years ago after 25+ years each because they didn't want to live 150+ days or more on the road every year any more. Ditto the guy that replaced Scheff for one year. All that said, it seems like Neal should have just said - here's what I want to do, what will it take to get it done. That's what he had to do with Perry in 98. Not fun, and probably costly, but when you have partners...
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Post by slucero on Jul 17, 2020 9:10:43 GMT -8
I don't think any of these guys (maybe Ross) are really hurting for money....
Smitty has been busy ever since he left Journey... always touring, doing clinics, etc... They also didn't evenly split writing credits so Smitty and Ross never really had much income from that to begin with... their income most likely came from touring and whatever they received from the jointly owned Journey properties/ventures Herbie had set up for them when he incorporated the band. That only lasted until Perry blew it up...
If there ever was anyone who "is" Journey though, it's Schon. Period. That being said. Schon doesn't solely own the Journey mark. It's jointly owned through Nightmare and he has to deal with that, whether he likes it or not.
Journey was one of the 1st bands that really was run like a business, a corporation... set up that way by Herbie... who gave them all an education on how a corporation works... and yet it appears Neal learned nothing in that regard...
Ironic.
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Post by tj on Feb 23, 2021 19:43:37 GMT -8
Anything new on this? Last I saw was Neal in an interview saying that they had made an offer to Ross and Smith.
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Post by steveo777 on Feb 24, 2021 11:12:04 GMT -8
Anything new on this? Last I saw was Neal in an interview saying that they had made an offer to Ross and Smith. I don't know why they should be offered anything. Maybe it's just a fuck off and go away payment. That would clear Journey of any encumbrances as they go into the next tour and album release. It would be interesting to see what they got, but I'm sure there is a NDA.
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Post by slucero on Feb 24, 2021 11:31:13 GMT -8
yea they're gonna get paid... but it will be in exchange for their royalty rights, an NDA and a gag order.
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Post by tj on Feb 24, 2021 20:14:32 GMT -8
yea they're gonna get paid... but it will be in exchange for their royalty rights, an NDA and a gag order. Maybe that was their goal in the first place. BTW, I recall reading that Journey had sold their rights a while back. A lot of artists from the 60s - 80s seem to be doing that these days. I wonder how that might impact the offer.
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Post by slucero on Feb 25, 2021 15:08:24 GMT -8
yea they're gonna get paid... but it will be in exchange for their royalty rights, an NDA and a gag order. Maybe that was their goal in the first place. BTW, I recall reading that Journey had sold their rights a while back. A lot of artists from the 60s - 80s seem to be doing that these days. I wonder how that might impact the offer.
I don't think Perry ever did... or would.... sell his royalty rights....
Journey's catalog is the most evergreen catalog there is... right up there with the Beatles...
Michael Jackson then bought it and leveraged into into a merger that made him almost $1 Billion dollars...
Paul can thank Yoko for her incredible business acumen....
It wasn't until 2017 that McCartney was able to begin reclaiming his rights to some of the songs he and Lennon wrote...
Any Journey member with significant royalty rights would have to be hard pressed for money, or a fool to part with their royalty rights...
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Post by tj on Feb 25, 2021 20:30:31 GMT -8
Maybe that was their goal in the first place. BTW, I recall reading that Journey had sold their rights a while back. A lot of artists from the 60s - 80s seem to be doing that these days. I wonder how that might impact the offer. I don't think Perry ever did... or would.... sell his royalty rights....
Journey's catalog is the most evergreen catalog there is... right up there with the Beatles...
Michael Jackson then bought it and leveraged into into a merger that made him almost $1 Billion dollars...
Paul can thank Yoko for her incredible business acumen....
It wasn't until 2017 that McCartney was able to begin reclaiming his rights to some of the songs he and Lennon wrote...
Any Journey member with significant royalty rights would have to be hard pressed for money, or a fool to part with their royalty rights...
I did some searching and found a brief description of what I remembered. Schon and Cain. It's about halfway down the article. No real details. iloveclassicrock.com/rock-legends-that-sold-their-publishing-rights/
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Post by slucero on Feb 26, 2021 9:18:34 GMT -8
Well now we know one of the reasons Schon wants to tour all the time... he has no interest rights to the catalog, and a 17.5% interest in streaming residuals....
Perry, on the other hand, signed a straight publishing deal... UMPG is responsible for managing licensing, tracking streaming and other usage... and makes sure Perry gets paid...
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