TNC
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Posts: 231
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Post by TNC on Apr 25, 2022 20:39:43 GMT -8
The Pros
Hooky sing-along chorus.
The outro (starting around 4:40) featuring mostly drums and guitar and a synth bed is cool.
More Journeyish than the last single.
The Cons
Mix is strangely muddy.
Neal's solo sounds like it was done in one take...including an off key note.
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Post by slucero on Apr 26, 2022 15:48:11 GMT -8
1. Agree - Mix is muddy, very mono-ish... and that's why the vocals are buried. Its normal that vocals are mixed dead center.. along with kick and snare and bass. The center tracks are mixed to carve out frequency space so they don't compete with each other... nowadays this (called ducking) is easily done, and with computer based mixing, also dynamic and auto-matable. there should be no reason for the center to be so muddy... This is troubling because checking a mix in mono is normally part of the mixing process.. audio engineers learn this when learn to mix, but only to verify and contrast it vs. the stereo mix.... The vocals still being muddy tell me that 1) someone pulled the trigger on releasing this too soon, or 2) the room this was mixed in has tuning issues that only become apparent when listening to a mix outside that space. I listened to this then listened to Separate Ways... and there's a world of difference... the vocals are clear and up front.. and the stereo separation is also more distinct. Also there is a more judicious use of delay.. it's much cleaner, where areas You Got The Best Of Me is awash in delays, which only enhances its muddiness.
Of course the reason Separate Ways sounds so much better?
1. Recorded at Fantasy,
2. engineered by Mike Stone,
3. produced by Kevin Elson.
Stone alone has bonafides that reach back to when he, as a teenager, worked on some sessions for The Beatles' Beatles For Sale. Later he paired with Queen's then producer, Roy Thomas Baker, to engineer the unique vocal layering for "Bohemian Rhapsody".
Who's engineering and producing this? Narada, Schon and Cain.
Who's Mixing this? No clue.
Honestly, Eclipse has much better mixing. May they should let Kalmusky remix this...
Hell, they should hire whoever mixed this:
2. Perry (or maybe Neal) once said that Perry would "sing solo lines" that Neal would use... clearly he needs that to make his solo's less about speed, shredding and more about what made them memorable in the first place ... melody... because as I listen now, Neal has lost the plot on creating memorable solos...
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TNC
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Posts: 231
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Post by TNC on Apr 27, 2022 5:45:29 GMT -8
Kalmusky is credited as "sound engineer" along with Bob Clearmountain and Narada's in-house guy, Jim Reitzel.
3 other engineers are listed as well (including Cain). Perhaps a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth?
As for Elson/Stone....they also produced Generations, so their best days may be behind them.
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Post by tj on Apr 27, 2022 9:12:56 GMT -8
Kalmusky is credited as "sound engineer" along with Bob Clearmountain and Narada's in-house guy, Jim Reitzel. 3 other engineers are listed as well (including Cain). Perhaps a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth? As for Elson/Stone....they also produced Generations, so their best days may be behind them. Stone's definitely, he died in 2002.
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Post by slucero on Apr 27, 2022 16:10:25 GMT -8
Kalmusky is credited as "sound engineer" along with Bob Clearmountain and Narada's in-house guy, Jim Reitzel. 3 other engineers are listed as well (including Cain). Perhaps a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth? As for Elson/Stone....they also produced Generations, so their best days may be behind them.
I think that's a spot on analysis...
This is also a couple years of recording, in studios (some home, some pro) being pieced together... that probably has something to do with it too. The rest of the record will tell the tale...
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Post by tj on Apr 27, 2022 16:23:36 GMT -8
Kalmusky is credited as "sound engineer" along with Bob Clearmountain and Narada's in-house guy, Jim Reitzel. 3 other engineers are listed as well (including Cain). Perhaps a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth? As for Elson/Stone....they also produced Generations, so their best days may be behind them. I think that's a spot on analysis...
This is also a couple years of recording, in studios (some home, some pro) being pieced together... that probably has something to do with it too. The rest of the record will tell the tale...
For what is likely to be the last thing you ever put out as a band, wouldn't you want it to be the best thing possible? I understand if it was lock down, but that was over a year ago as far as ability to get together and work. Or maybe this IS the best that they have left in them. There's no shame in that, I suppose.
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Post by slucero on Apr 27, 2022 18:44:09 GMT -8
I think that's a spot on analysis...
This is also a couple years of recording, in studios (some home, some pro) being pieced together... that probably has something to do with it too. The rest of the record will tell the tale...
For what is likely to be the last thing you ever put out as a band, wouldn't you want it to be the best thing possible? I understand if it was lock down, but that was over a year ago as far as ability to get together and work. Or maybe this IS the best that they have left in them. There's no shame in that, I suppose. I'm sure they would. No one wants to put out shite. Recording in a pro studio... which is an environment engineered to sound a specific, known way... is mucho different tn tracking in ones bedroom/homestudio... if the recorded tracks suck there's really no way to save them in a mix... it really comes down to that.
This album being pieced together from a couple years worth of demos... all recorded everywhere... Neals home, Jon's studio, wherever Arnel recorded in Manila... lots of variables there sonically... lots of unknowns, and irreversible actions... makes mixing much harder.... add a lot of "chiefs", gets even worse...
I think the album will tell the tale..
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TNC
Full Member
Posts: 231
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Post by TNC on Apr 29, 2022 5:56:59 GMT -8
Kevin Shirley once said that the demo for "Chang for the Better" was a mess and he had to re-arrange the whole thing. That was for Revelation. It will be interesting to hear what this album will be like without any outside creative vision. Neal/ Cain / Narada are pros....can't imagine it will be a total POS. I think Neal's solos on TWWUTB and YGTBOM sound really improvised. Shirley used to make him do multiple takes.
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Post by slucero on Apr 29, 2022 18:04:10 GMT -8
Perry was very much a "less is more" guy when it cam to arrangement and instrumentation.. I'm sure he hounded Neal to solo to the point, short and sweet... all of his solos were statements, with singable melodies...
I've not heard him solo like that since Perry left... and now that he has free reign... I'm not sure that's a good thing...
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Post by tj on Apr 30, 2022 8:01:43 GMT -8
Perry was very much a "less is more" guy when it cam to arrangement and instrumentation.. I'm sure he hounded Neal to solo to the point, short and sweet... all of his solos were statements, with singable melodies... I've not heard him solo like that since Perry left... and now that he has free reign... I'm not sure that's a good thing... I had never thought of that, but I can see the difference since sp left.
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Post by steveo777 on May 12, 2022 16:39:24 GMT -8
I like the tune, but I sure hope that's not the final mix!
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Post by sfdano on Jun 3, 2022 8:28:59 GMT -8
Video now out
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Post by slucero on Jun 6, 2022 13:08:09 GMT -8
they worked on the mix... verses sound great, Arnel can be heard easily an intelligibly, I really hear no diction problems either... chorus is still muddy as fuck.
Musically and lyrically though.... the song is forgettable..
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Post by tj on Jun 6, 2022 18:26:36 GMT -8
they worked on the mix... verses sound great, Arnel can be heard easily an intelligibly, I really hear no diction problems either... chorus is still muddy as fuck. Musically and lyrically though.... the song is forgettable.. I think it would be a great background tune for a movie.
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