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Post by tj on Jan 20, 2023 12:55:48 GMT -8
Perhaps, though, if Neal has been spending like JC says in his court papers, there is no money to pay Gregg. That would be the icing on this. Neal on social media says adding Gregg would cost $0, as they have lined up a sponsor. I don't think it's about costs at this point. Cain/Arnel really have no reason to respect or comply with any of Neal's wishes at this point. He's suing and attacking Cain and his wife every day on Twitter. Why would they - or anyone - agree to bring back his buddy, Gregg? He can go fuck himself. Maybe it costs $0, but unless the sponsorship money is only coming in if Gregg plays, then it is additional money coming out of everyone else's pocket. From what it sounds like, he needs to be out getting sponsors to cover his own spending.
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Post by tj on Jan 20, 2023 12:57:35 GMT -8
I hope that people at the Durant, Oklahoma shows post video on YouTube. It would be fun to see the interaction with these buffoons. I do feel bad for Arnel being caught up in this ridiculousness. Then again, he is getting paid really well.
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Post by factfinder on Jan 20, 2023 18:23:07 GMT -8
Journey keyboardist Jonathan Cain has lodged a countersuit against bandmate and guitarist Neal Schon for allegedly charging over $1 million in personal expenses to the band’s shared American Express card, including a one-month $400,000 shopping spree. Schon and Cain have been embroiled in a bitter, highly publicized legal battle over the past several months, as the guitarist previously sued the keyboardist for “improperly restrict[ing]” his access to financial documents associated with the shared American Express card. The card account is linked to Nomota, the limited-liability corporation that Cain and Schon established in 1998 and in which they both have a 50% stake. However, in a countersuit filed last Friday in California and viewed by UCR, Cain accused Schon of “misusing” the card to “pay for his personal expenses,” alleging that the guitarist “had serious financial problems as a result of an extravagant lifestyle.” The suit claims that between May 2021 and fall 2022, Schon “caused over $1 million in personal expenses to be charged to the AMEX account.” Nearly half of this came from a one-month period in which Schon allegedly spent $400,000 on Chrome Hearts jewelry, items from Bergdorf Goodman department store and personal insurance premiums, among other expenses. Additionally, the suit lists Cain as the personal guarantor of the shared American Express card, making him personally liable for the expenses. At one point, the keyboardist requested the credit card company impose a $30,000 spending limit on Schon. In spite of this limit, Schon allegedly “still managed to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional, excessive personal expenses through other tour personnel and travel agents,” including hotel rooms exceeding $5,000 a night. Schon’s attorney Skip Miller called Cain’s recent allegations “ridiculous” and “as phony as a three-dollar bill” in a statement to Billboard, chalking the countersuit up to “sour grapes” after Schon filed a cease-and-desist order last month against Cain demanding that the keyboardist stop playing Journey songs at rallies supporting former President Donald Trump. Despite these legal squabbles, Journey is set to kick off their 50th-anniversary tour next Friday in Durant, Okla. Original keyboardist Gregg Rolie was rumored to be taking part in the trek, but Schon appeared to backtrack on those claims earlier this week. A preliminary hearing for Schon’s initial lawsuit against Cain is scheduled for March 3. Read More: Jonathan Cain Sues Neal Schon for Charging $1M to Journey Card | ultimateclassicrock.com/jonathan-cain-sues-neal-schon-1-million-journey-credit-card/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral
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Post by factfinder on Jan 20, 2023 18:41:05 GMT -8
I hope that people at the Durant, Oklahoma shows post video on YouTube. It would be fun to see the interaction with these buffoons. I do feel bad for Arnel being caught up in this ridiculousness. Then again, he is getting paid really well. It’s only 7 days away, I’d think they should be rehearsing together now. Wonder what that vibe is like, or do they sweep it away for a couple hours and get on with business. Neal and Jon need a couple of Starbucks together.
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Post by slucero on Jan 20, 2023 20:29:21 GMT -8
...more like a couple of rounds at the local boxing gym...
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Post by steveo777 on Jan 21, 2023 4:08:36 GMT -8
...more like a couple of rounds at the local boxing gym... Sometimes that shit actually works! A couple of us, when we were kids, were made to settle our problems that way. lol
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Post by tj on Jan 21, 2023 12:19:22 GMT -8
...more like a couple of rounds at the local boxing gym... Sometimes that shit actually works! A couple of us, when we were kids, were made to settle our problems that way. lol My brother was a year younger than me. For Christmas when we were 6 and 7, our grandparents bought us boxing gloves. The only rule was you can't hit each other in the back. Other than that, full MMA/WWE. We would pound the crap out of each other, tag team with our cousins who lived around the block, flying body slam off the top of the couch. Good times.
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Post by tj on Jan 22, 2023 16:57:59 GMT -8
Less than a week before they stake stage. I think Toto is opening for them. I wonder what Lukather thinks about all of this. His son is married to Cain's daughter and he and Neal have been friends for years. He may just figure it's part of the business. Not like Toto hasn't had their own issues over the years, I guess.
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Post by slucero on Jan 22, 2023 17:35:46 GMT -8
Luke will steer clear of it...
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Post by slucero on Mar 11, 2023 17:24:47 GMT -8
Schon Demurrer filing..(click--->) PDF
IMHO, Cain is playing the long game here.
Cain claimed Schon is in fiduciary breach of his obligations as a member of Nomota.. this is an interesting strategy.. Schon's demurrer is an attempt to quash the use of Nomota bylaw by Cains lawyers as a legal basis. Now if the judge denies the demurrer request Cains lawyers can then enter into evidence the AMEX records in detail, validate their counterclaim AND subsequently initiate proceedings for Schon's suspension/removal as a voting member of Nomota.
I'm assuming that Valory and Smith got paid to walk away from their employment contracts with Journey... but not sure if they gave up their ownership and/or member status in Nomota as part of the deal. It would be absolutely hilarious if the judge denied this demurrrer and Cain then joined forces with Perry, Valory and Smith to strip Schon of his Nomota voting rights.. If this plays out this way, Schon may have to give up control to retain income...
(Perry would be proud)
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Post by tj on Mar 12, 2023 14:09:47 GMT -8
Neal is about to be out of money and out of a machine to bring it in. Arnel's voice can't hold much longer and Jon is probably old enough to say I'm done. That leaves Neal with no band, no legal avenue to use the name, and no real big income stream - which his spending seems to require.
I watched an interview with Steve Porcaro from a few years back where he talks about a lot of musicians touring because they need the cash. Neal seems to be one of those guys. It's not wrong, it just leaves him in a crunch when he kills the golden goose.
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Post by slucero on Mar 12, 2023 15:02:36 GMT -8
This is my understanding of how the interaction between Nomota and Journey LLC works:
- Nomota: Owns the Journey mark (which IMHO IS the brand), and is/was owned by its members, previously Schon, Cain, Smith, Valory, Perry and the late Herbie.
- Journey LLC: Co-owned by Schon and Cain, created to run business of the band. This entity licenses the use of the mark from Nomota for all things Journey.
The aforementioned remaining 5 Nomota members (or a simple majority) must approve the use of the mark. I believe this is where Schon is tripping over his ego. Legally he has always only been a 1/5th owner of the Journey mark. The other owners were Schon, Cain, Smith, Valory, Perry and the late Herbie.
His suing and then making a deal with Valory and Smith may have resulted in them:
- relinquishing their rights to the Journey mark and/or
- relinquishing their member voting rights in Nomota
No one is really sure of the details of the Valory/Smith deal. I did check OpenCorporates and only Cain/Schon are listed, but that doesn't mean Smith, Valory are no longer members. TNC might be able to shed some light on this..
Schon clearly benefits by reducing the size of the members of Nomota. Doing so effectively increases his remaining ownership percentage in the mark (unless negotiated otherwise).
However, I'm assuming the current Nomota voting member makeup still includes Perry, because as of the Schon vs Valory/Smith lawsuit, Perry and Herbie were mentioned as members of Nomota. I think its logical to assume that Perry is still part of the Nomota member list. Perry and Cain alone can pretty much force Schon to do whatever they want.
Regardless, at this point, its fully obvious that Schon is far more income dependent than Cain. Schon needs access to the Journey mark to make money. If it's just Cain & Schon as Nomota members, IMHO Cain has all the leverage here, and I'd expect Cain really turns the screws to Schon for taking his dirty laundry public and trying to smear Cain's reputation with it. The irony of Perry being the possible deciding vote should not be lost on anyone given Neal's "cup of coffee" olive branch to Perry and Perry's absolute silence on the subject.
I don't think Schon is getting out of this without give up some flesh.... and that flesh could be a deal where he gains use of the Journey mark for a fixed period so he can tour JTT an/or Journey alone and continue making money. He'll have to give up something in return... I bet it's a percentage of future receipts and/or Nomota vote. Cain will get what he wants (retire) and be compensated (just like Perry was/is) every time Schon takes the stage in his version of Journey.
This makes sense (at least to me) because Schon is the one who is cash strapped, and his only remaining bargaining chip is his ownership of the Journey mark via his stake in Nomota.
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Post by tj on Mar 13, 2023 16:40:08 GMT -8
This is my understanding of how the interaction between Nomota and Journey LLC works:
- Nomota: Owns the Journey mark (which IMHO IS the brand), and is/was owned by its members, previously Schon, Cain, Smith, Valory, Perry and the late Herbie.
- Journey LLC: Co-owned by Schon and Cain, created to run business of the band. This entity licenses the use of the mark from Nomota for all things Journey.
The aforementioned remaining 5 Nomota members (or a simple majority) must approve the use of the mark. I believe this is where Schon is tripping over his ego. Legally he has always only been a 1/5th owner of the Journey mark. The other owners were Schon, Cain, Smith, Valory, Perry and the late Herbie.
His suing and then making a deal with Valory and Smith may have resulted in them:
- relinquishing their rights to the Journey mark and/or
- relinquishing their member voting rights in Nomota
No one is really sure of the details of the Valory/Smith deal. I did check OpenCorporates and only Cain/Schon are listed, but that doesn't mean Smith, Valory are no longer members. TNC might be able to shed some light on this..
Schon clearly benefits by reducing the size of the members of Nomota. Doing so effectively increases his remaining ownership percentage in the mark (unless negotiated otherwise).
However, I'm assuming the current Nomota voting member makeup still includes Perry, because as of the Schon vs Valory/Smith lawsuit, Perry and Herbie were mentioned as members of Nomota. I think its logical to assume that Perry is still part of the Nomota member list. Perry and Cain alone can pretty much force Schon to do whatever they want.
Regardless, at this point, its fully obvious that Schon is far more income dependent than Cain. Schon needs access to the Journey mark to make money. If it's just Cain & Schon as Nomota members, IMHO Cain has all the leverage here, and I'd expect Cain really turns the screws to Schon for taking his dirty laundry public and trying to smear Cain's reputation with it. The irony of Perry being the possible deciding vote should not be lost on anyone given Neal's "cup of coffee" olive branch to Perry and Perry's absolute silence on the subject.
I don't think Schon is getting out of this without give up some flesh.... and that flesh could be a deal where he gains use of the Journey mark for a fixed period so he can tour JTT an/or Journey alone and continue making money. He'll have to give up something in return... I bet it's a percentage of future receipts and/or Nomota vote. Cain will get what he wants (retire) and be compensated (just like Perry was/is) every time Schon takes the stage in his version of Journey.
This makes sense (at least to me) because Schon is the one who is cash strapped, and his only remaining bargaining chip is his ownership of the Journey mark via his stake in Nomota.
I don't know if all the are details correct, probably pretty close though based on what we have seen through filings. Regardless, I think your conclusions are pretty much spot on with regard to what Neal does and doesn't have the ability to do. Neal's poor financial decisions leave him with much fewer options. Being an a$$hole to those who control his best ability to generate cash is not a smart decision. But then he has never been known for his decision making ability. Thinking back 35+ years ago when Jon, Neal and Steve tossed Smith and Ross to the side, it all comes back around. How do you really trust someone who did that? Sort of like the woman who was the mistress marrying the guy who was cheating on his wife with her. How does the new wife know that he won't do it again?
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Post by slucero on Mar 14, 2023 19:03:16 GMT -8
One more thing... my money's on this being Arnel's last tour... he's made his money, and the recent bullshit from camp Schon and his response is very telling...
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Post by tj on Mar 14, 2023 21:00:22 GMT -8
One more thing... my money's on this being Arnel's last tour... he's made his money, and the recent bullshit from camp Schon and his response is very telling... Would not surprise me. He has also made a name for himself that should allow him to get some pretty good offers in new music if he wants it. Jon probably hangs it up too. Neal is left with Deen as the quasi Perry voice and not much else.
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